22. How Brandon Vogel Turned Construction Into a Real Estate Business!

In Episode 22 of Let's Buy The World Podcast, host Evan Darnell sits down with Missouri real estate investor and contractor Brandon Vogel to discuss what it really takes to build a successful real estate investing business from the ground up.

Brandon shares how he went from starting a construction company straight out of high school to owning more than 100 rental units, managing multiple renovation crews and running over a dozen active rehab projects at once. He explains why buying the worst properties often creates the biggest opportunities, how strong banking relationships helped him scale without relying on hard money lenders and why systems, project management and disciplined underwriting are essential for long term growth.

The conversation also dives into entrepreneurship, balancing business with family, the sacrifices required to succeed, lessons learned after a flip literally burned down, building wealth through rentals, construction strategies, financing, BRRRR investing, cash flowing multifamily properties and the mindset needed to keep growing while avoiding burnout.

Whether you're a beginner looking to buy your first investment property or an experienced investor wanting to scale a real estate portfolio, this episode is packed with practical advice, real world experience and honest conversations about what building a business actually looks like.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Let's Buy the World, a real estate podcast, hosted by yours truly, Evan Darnell. On this podcast, we're going to jump into wholesaling, wholesale, flipping. Maybe you want to buy your first property. Really, we're going to cover the gamut, and it's for anybody who maybe just got started to somebody who's a seasoned investor. So I'm excited for you guys to follow along and hear some of these awesome guests that we're going to have. Thanks for joining and welcome to another episode of Let's Buy the World. This started out a real estate podcast, but now it's just a podcast for high performing people, not necessarily real estate people, business owners. But this is Brandon Vogel. Welcome to the podcast, brother.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Yeah, it's good to be here. Yeah, my initial uh story started in high school. I worked for a couple contractors and I did the trades class. Did that for a couple years, and as soon as I got out of high school, I decided it was just something I wanted to pursue. And I started my own business right out of high school. I did a lot of small end jobs, drywall repairs, flooring, painting, uh, a little bit of everything, to be honest. And from there, I just kind of took it and scaled a little bit larger. I moved to a bigger town in Columbia. My hometown was about 13,000 people. Columbia is around 100,000. Once we moved the work down here, it was just endless opportunities. And it was kind of good to have that initial background when construction when I started investing, because then I knew what to look for. I could analyze deals because I've done it previously for other people and really just kind of took in scale from there.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Man, that's awesome. Yeah, I do flips as well. I don't have the construction background you do. So I'm sure that helps big time. You're able to kind of see a project from I was watching some of your videos, and you're pretty much gutting these houses down to the freaking studs and redoing everything. So you're doing plumbing, electrical, you're doing everything.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Yeah. So yeah, we pretty much that's what we specialize in, is some of the worst properties. We like to buy those ones that have been sitting vacant for a decade. And the cool thing is around this area here in Columbia, is if we were to demo some of these houses, the city wouldn't even allow us to build back because the setbacks and the boundaries have all changed and those regulations have changed. For instance, we did three side by side, and they were pretty much full tear-down houses, but we kept all the exterior walls, pretty much reframed everything from the inside, and we kept that initial same footprint and then brought all three of those back to life. We found out later on, if we were to demo those, the city wouldn't even allow anything to go back on those lots. And it's a quicker way to get in and get out. If you go to demo a house, you got to wait for the planning, you got to get all those engineers involved, the architects involved, you got to get the permits approved, and that may take up to six months in itself. What we're doing is we buy in there, we just get an alteration permit immediately, and we can get these properties flipped around in about three to four months. So we're getting tenants in there immediately, and we're not floating that cash as long.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Yeah. So do you have a pretty good relationship with the city?

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Yeah, for the most part, yeah. Now, yeah, I mean, it's hit and miss. Columbia is a lot different than the surrounding areas. For instance, we just did one duplex permit alone. It was about eight thousand dollars for the permit, and we're doing a four-plex in Jeff City right now, and that permit was like four hundred dollars. So there's different stages to it. It's a lot harder to make it work in our area with the numbers. All the real estate is all inflated, and the prices to do everything is very high. So we've been kind of outsourcing to those markets surrounding the area right now.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Sounds smart, yeah. I was looking at some of your pricing you were talking about in there. I think you bought a house for 85 grand. Y'all spent 250 on the remodel or somewhere around there. Yeah, and I think the after repair value was somewhere close to half a million for a house like that, which was so funny because you I and so you're in Missouri. Is would that be considered Midwest?

SPEAKER_00 4:04

Yeah, it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Okay, so Midwest, which is Midwest isn't super inflated like you know, East Coast or West Coast.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

But still, it's more than my market. Like um, you can buy a three-bed or yeah, three-bed, two-bath brick house, two-car garage, like in a decent area. I wouldn't say like high-end anywhere, but for 250,000, 250,000, rents on that would be close to around 2,000 a month. So rents to cost is pretty comparable to where you are. You know what I'm saying? I think your rents were like 4,800 and you're trying to be in it at 400,000 or something. Yeah, yeah. But it's just it's funny, I just it's crazy how prices can vary differently all throughout the country. But at the end of the day, as investors, we're still trying to be in there to where we're cash flowing and it makes sense. It's not gonna lose us money. So you are able to buy rentals and still cash flow in your market.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Yeah, for the most part, uh, the single families are a little bit more difficult to make work. You got to buy those in a bundle because we always try to go after that one percent rule. But with the multifamily, it seems like it works. And especially with the houses we're working with, they're so dilapidated, they we're getting them so cheap initially up front, and then just renovating them so we have no maintenance on the back end, and we're able to cash out refi and still be able to hit that one percent rule in cash flow.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. So you're able to keep going, not having to tie your money up. You know what the benefit of you owning a $450,000 house versus me owning uh like I have a lot of rentals that are like $120,000. Yeah, and but then some of them rent for $1,400, $1,500 a month. But really, where you're gonna beat me long term if you own a bunch of assets is you know, you're paying down a $450,000 note, or I'm paying down a $120,000 note. So you're building so much more equity so much quicker, versus because I've got I'm up to 80, 90 doors right now, but a lot of them are cheaper, smaller rentals. At the end of the day, how much total debt you're controlling and paying down is really where the wealth is. You know what I'm saying? It's not a number of doors, it's like how much debt do you have and how much you're paying it down. Exactly. So I definitely think it's probably harder in those markets, but you can make some serious money through appreciation and debt pay down.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Exactly. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

That's awesome. I also I saw you have a beautiful family, beautiful wife, you've kids, kiddos. How many kids?

SPEAKER_00 6:45

So we got three, we got the ages four, two, and one.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Nice, sweet. I've got so I've got four and two. I get nice.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

So we're pretty cool. What's ages? Uh four and two. Four and two, okay. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

Yeah, same as you. Same. I my my my oldest just had a birthday uh this weekend.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Yeah, yeah. So we're pretty similar. How old are you?

SPEAKER_00 7:06

I am 34.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Sweet. Okay. So I'm 35, about to be 36. So we're at similar ages, yeah. Similar ages, similar paths in our careers. Yeah. What what do you think has made you an entrepreneur versus somebody who clocks in eight to five? You obviously worked for yourself for a long time. What makes you different? Is it just luck? You just happen to get into it, or are do you think you're different?

SPEAKER_00 7:34

No, I've yeah, I don't know. I've always kind of just been that way since I was younger. Working for other people is a little bit difficult. I always just kind of question some of their decisions and just decided one day I was like, if I can't work for somebody else, I need to do it for myself. And I've always been that type. I go out there and just get it done and hustle all the time. Yeah, I was just I always like to stay busy and I like to keep my plate full. I like to eat.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

That's what's always been deep rooted into me.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Yeah, yeah. I wanted to ask this. This is another question I kind of want to start throwing in. So, what is your morning routine like? Are you an early riser? Are you a grinder? Are you like and I'll speak to myself there for a long time. I would get up at five, do this and that. Now I've been working for myself for about five years. Now I'm starting to get a little bit more lice. I'll sleep in a little longer till seven, stay around the house, this and that. But it ebbs and flows. So, what does your morning routine look like?

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Yeah, I'm definitely a morning person. I'm a big hunter, so I'm always used to uh at a young age just waking up super early. But yeah, when I'm we had our kids, I had to adjust a little bit. I've always got up around 5 a.m. I usually hit the gym early. When we started having our children, I think I kind of adjusted to uh leaving the house around 6 a.m. now. I still like to get to that gym from 6 to 7. The phone's not ringing. I can just kind of focus on myself, just kind of get prepared for the day. And then from there I kind of go around, check some job sites. Seems like over the last couple of years I've been cooped up in the office more than more than I'd like, but that's just what it takes when you go to scale. You gotta get those systems in place. And but yeah, for the most part, I'm going around checking on crews. I like to pop in from time to time and just make sure the project managers are doing everything they should be doing. And uh, which right now I have a great team. I've been very fortunate. Uh, but yeah, I'm just I'm one of those types I don't like to sit still for too long.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

Sure, that's good. No, absolutely, and that's what a lot of entrepreneurs are like. You gotta be self-driven to run your own business. Do you ever feel like you're not doing enough?

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Like you're behind or yeah, I feel like that's constantly, yeah, all the time. But uh, you know, as my kids get older, it's kind of started to change a little bit. Before I never felt like I could leave town or I could do anything, but now as they're growing up, I realize everything we do is for them, and all the times now matter more than anything. And to be honest, over the last we got a lake property and we've been slipping out almost every week on Thursday and just go down there. So I'm only working Monday through Wednesday. The guys don't know that right now. But I mean, I can work from my phone down there, and we spend time with them, go fishing, get out on the water. And uh yeah, I feel like as I'm getting older, I'm trying to respect that time more.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Yep, I love that. No, a hundred percent. I always feel like I'm not doing enough people, and I'm super competitive. I think that's what's pushed me to get to where I am. But like I was saying, now that I'm kind of to a point where I can afford to go on trips, I can afford to take off work, I've got good people in place, I've really taken advantage of that. It feels like we've been going all summer on vacations or this and that. And like I said, I felt some sometimes I don't even tell my guys I'm leaving because I don't want them to not know I'm gonna come by and check on them. Exactly. And then on Fridays, I'm like, hey, you go pick up your your checks at the office or that or something. So but uh I think that's important, man. Life is short, but you can't get those times back, and this is why we do what we do is so we can have the flexibility. So yeah, I'm a big hunter myself as well.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Nice. What all do you do?

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Uh whitetail mostly, a lot of deer. I do some waterfowl.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Um, we always do pheasant hunting every year, pretty much anything. I like to fish.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

Nice. Um, we'll have to check out different spots. You come down here to Missouri and I'll come down there.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Absolutely. Turkey hunting's big around here. Do you have a lot of turkey?

SPEAKER_00 11:36

Yeah, we do. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Yeah, I'm sure y'all. Do y'all have how big are y'all's deer?

SPEAKER_00 11:40

They're pretty big, I think. From what I've been told, they're a little bit bigger than what they are in Texas. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yeah, there's some pockets, like like down into Kennedy, there's some giant deer, but a big buck around here would be like in my area, would be like a hundred and sixty inches, would be like a good buck. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

That's pretty average around here, but I'm they get a lot bigger. Yeah, there's some monsters around here.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

That's awesome. Yeah, you I'll come up there then. Now, up in Colorado where they're corn fed, there's like southeast Colorado, big old corn fed deer. Big oh, you'll get some like 180 big oh heavy horned bucks. And then we would do a lot of Illinois bow hunting.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

Yeah, I'd love to go down there. Yeah, I've heard about that.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

There's some studs, yeah. Pike County, but dude, it's hard hunting because you can't bait them. Yeah, you can't hunt over corn. No, and so you're pretty much just waiting for them to slip by in the trails, and yeah, you just never know. We were there, I went three years in a row, seven days. It was before the sun went up or came up, and then you they would pick you up after the sun came down, so it was all day sits, like 14-hour sits. And I did three years in a row, didn't shoot a single deer. My buddy who went, he shot a deer every year. The last year we went, he shot a 212-inch whitetail monster. Just a freaking tank. So he's pretty lucky though.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Are those guided hunts?

SPEAKER_01 13:13

They're like semi-guided, they'll just drop you off at your blind and you just sit on your ass there against a tree for 14 hours. It's tough hunting, man. I don't think I'm going back. Yeah. I don't think I'm going back. But I did a lot of mule deer hunting too.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Yeah, yes, sir. Heck yeah, man. No, I just wanted to talk about that. I love it when other people you play golf too.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

I go out there. I don't I'm not very well, yeah. I just started maybe two years ago, and then right after I started, I broke my leg. And uh so that put a damper on it. But I go out there from time to time, but most of the time we're chasing down my balls.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

I get it. Yeah, I'm a big golfer. I've been playing about seven years now, but man, I have made a lot of good business connections through golf.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

Nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

I will say that. I will say that. That's one thing I always tell people. Have you seen that? Do you know who Ryan Pineda is?

SPEAKER_00 14:03

Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

So he has that golf mastermind where literally people just pay to go play at nice courses and they do business together. But he's created, I forget somebody was talking about how much money he's making off of that model, and he's making millions off of it. Yeah, I thought that was a great point that if you can find because usually people who golf are business owners who have money, and if you're decent at golf, people want to play with you. So if you can exactly I digress regardless, but uh let's talk about your team and your project. So you said you had some project managers. What all does your team and everything look like there?

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Yeah, right now we have I want to say it's five W-2 guys, and then one of them runs an in-house crew. Everything else we use subcontractors. We have, I want to say around six or seven subcontractor crews, and they're all constantly working. One of my PMs, he focuses mainly in the Columbia Jeff City area. Then I have another one that looks in the St. Louis area. We're doing a couple flips there, and then the other in-house guy, he focuses mainly on our projects in-house. He does a lot of the works hands-on, but he'll run from job site to job site as well, making sure we have all the materials needed.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

How many projects do you typically have going at one time?

SPEAKER_00 15:22

So we've really ramped up over the last, I would say, eight to ten months. Now we're currently working on I want to say 12 flipped properties. And then we have we have several rental turnovers and apartments that we're flipping as well.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Nice. How many doors do you have rental-wise?

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Right now we're around 107, 108.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Nice, kicking ass, bro. Let's go. I like it. That's great. And you're running that many rehabs. That's great. I'll speak to me. I've got three full-time guys that work for me.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

And my main guy, he's, I would say, project manager. I do a lot of wholesaling too. So it's flipping here and there when it makes sense. A lot of hotels, just clean them up barely, stuff like that. So our models are definitely different. Um but uh is having a dedicated person in charge of materials does that save you an absorbed amount of time versus hey, I have to run, pick up materials, or you just have your guide going when they need stuff here and there.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

So we do a little bit of both. One of my project managers, he's excellent. He's the most organized guy ever. Without him, I would not be anywhere to where we are. He handles, he plans ahead, he's scheduling deliveries for all these properties. We do big bulk orders and is always getting those purchases made and then making sure that those items are there when those subcontractors need them. Yeah, if I can't be out there running around these materials, there's just no way to keep that scale going. I need to focus on the larger picture and making sure that the underwriting's done correctly, projects are getting done on time, stuff like that. We do we do allow our subcontractors to go to these vendors that we have. Obviously, every vendor kind of knows who we work with. If they see a new face, they're gonna call me up and say, Hey, is this guy allowed to charge on your account? But yeah, anytime they need small things, like we're just telling them go get them, screws, any type of tool, let's say salz all blades, circular saw blades, anything like that. It's better if the the subcontractor gets those themselves because we don't know exactly which brand they need, which type they need. It's just a waste of time. And then if it's small stuff like paint, trim or whatever, like I'm like, you all just go get it, it's quicker. But if you can schedule with us 24 hours in advance, we'll have it on that site.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Nice, nice. Yeah, see, that's I think that's the difference if you're doing big remodeling like you is you have a bunch of subs, you have your main guys that do the main work, but then you sub out maybe paint or electrical trim, caventry, stuff like that. So you can versus me. I'm typically my guys are doing everything from start to finish, yeah, versus besides the HBAC electrical and the plumbing plumbing, yeah. So they can pretty much do everything there. So definitely different model. What's been your best flip you've ever done? What's the most amount of money you've ever made on a flip?

SPEAKER_00 18:23

So I would say it was actually one that we did, it hadn't even been a year ago, or actually it may be close to a year now. We had a property that we purchased on a Friday and it burnt down Sunday. Yeah, so it was it was pretty rough. We got the call Sunday morning, they're like, Yeah, it's on fire. And I'm like, Oh, it can't be that bad. Let's just go in there, get some charred boards, throw it out. I pull up there and the whole thing was gone. Like, it was bad. You had insurance, yeah. We did have insurance, but the insurance, so we only actually had it insured for what we purchased it for, so it didn't cover obviously the whole entire put back. So that kind of made us re-evaluate a lot of our properties because most of the time you just insure them for what you have into them and not what they're actually worth. Yeah, that was one thing that we learned that way. But in hindsight, it worked out really great because that property was just gonna be a quick flip from about 90 days back on the market. It ended up we had to tear it down, we had to go through the permitting process, completely rebuilt it brand new, but then it sold. I want to say it was about 11 months after from start to finish. It took about 11 to 12 months, almost a year. And we ended up profiting, I want to say it was 120,000 on that one. So it worked out good, but we had to jump through insurance, they would not pay us the money until they said until it was demoed, they'd pay us the money. We demoed it, then they said it needs to be framed, then we'll pay you the money. We got it framed, then they said we got to get to drywall stage, and then we'll pay you the money. So finally they ended up paying us the money once we got to drywall. But I'm like, how would other people do it if they didn't have the cash? Like they would just be screwed. But yeah, it started off bad because now, like I said, it burnt down. We're like, oh man, like this is gonna be a quick one. But after a year going through all the headache and everything, it was a pretty decent flip.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

What's your minimum you're trying to make on a flip? You're not gonna touch it if you don't make. I'll tell you around 30,000 is minimum for me. Yeah, is what I'm looking for.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

It's hitting this because some of them, let's say in the winter time, I'm not to keep making sure all my crews are staying busy and they have constant work. I will take some projects that I'm profiting a little bit lower just to keep those guys fed and to make sure they get money in their pockets. But yeah, for for the most part, I try to stick in with that 20 to 30k profit minimum. But yeah, I have taken some in the past where I'm breaking even or you know, I may only profit a little bit just to keep them guys busy because obviously, if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't be able to keep anything going and making sure that their families are fed, that's more important to me than the money. Yep, amen.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

100%. It's funny how I analyze a deal when I don't have a next project lined up versus if I've got several. I'm a lot less picky. Yes, yes, yes. And I'm like, okay, yeah, you know, whereas I'm like, uh no. Yeah, no, I can definitely relate to that for sure. So are you do you have relationships with banks or hard or private money, or how have you been able to fund all this stuff?

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Yes, we first started out. My wife and I, when we moved to Columbia here about six, seven years ago, we bought a flip property on the courthouse steps and we used a line of credit against our personal house at that time. I flipped that in the evenings and the nights and got that flipped around, I think about four to five months. Took that money, reinvested it in. And a couple years later, my wife and I built our personal house now. And I did a lot of that work myself. We took a line or a HELOC against that. So I'm using a lot of line of credits and HELOCs to purchase these properties with cash, renovate them with cash, and then either sell them or take them and refinance them with the bank. Right now, we don't use any hard money lenders, we just use all banks. We just built those. Relationships over the years, and I see our track record, and that's pretty easy now. So it was hard in the beginning. A lot of them are like, you run your own business and you're doing all the work. Is this gonna work? But after they've seen that multiple times, it's been pretty easy now.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Yeah. So you still pretty much use a HELOC for everything? So different lines of credit now.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

So now we use flips. We finance all our flips with the bank. They usually finance up to 90% of the purchase and renovation, and we leave 10% down. All long-term holds, I always use line of credits or our cash. And the only reason being is I feel like they appraise higher that way when the banks don't know what you purchased them for, they don't know the exact numbers you renovated them for. The appraisers have to do their jobs actually and you know appraise them for what they're appraised for and not look at your numbers of what you have into them. So by doing it that way, we're able to maximize our return. But uh, yeah, we use a lot of CD line of credits, line of credits against some real estate or our personal homes, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Yeah, yeah, that's where I'm at too. I've got two different banks that that I have line of credits for, and I was eventually able because that's what I at first I used the one property I had bought. I had it for five years before I bought another one, and used that equity with the line of credit, it was secured. Eventually, I was able to get unsecured lines of credit in two different banks, and then but yeah, that's I see so many people miss the banking relationship, yeah, and they're just using hard money lenders or private, and it's like, man, you can grow and do so much more by having good banking relationships. 100%. I just bought an apartment complex and I was able to do it pretty much no money out of pocket because I had good banking relationships. Nice. I never thought I could buy a big commercial asset without having to put 20% down, but yeah, by I got a good deal and leveraging my banking relationships, I was able to do it no money out of pocket. Yeah. I love that. So, what's kind of what do you see the future? What's on your plate? What's your goals? What do you want to do? What's what do you see in the next year, five years, and then when do you want to slow down, or when will it be enough? Or do you think you'll ever slow down?

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Yeah, that's a good question. My wife asks me that all the time. Yeah, I definitely I want to have more family time, obviously. Now I don't know if I'll ever be able to completely step away because I'm just that type of person. I'm just so active. I like to constantly do something, I like to keep my mind working. So it's gonna be hard to shut it off. But slow down and just focus more on family and making sure we're taking those trips and we're enjoying that time. But as far as right now, I just want to acquire everything that works, just keep growing. I love seeing everything grow around me, all the subcontractor crews, just all the team, just seeing them grow. It's just it's a really great feeling to be around all that. And I definitely plan to just keep going and maybe at one point we'll get out of the lower class properties because that's what we focus on right now, and eventually get into larger development, 100-200 unit deals for now. The money is better in these lower ones, but there is a lot of headaches that come with that.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

I get it, bro. I live in the C-class stuff, so I get it. I want some nice, beautiful brick, yeah, pre maybe 1980s or newer, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Low maintenance, yeah, different clientele for sure.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Yeah, so different renters for sure, different still headaches, but just a little different.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Have you figured out kind of a price per square foot of what you guys if you saw? Because how what are the sizes of properties that you're doing the remodels on?

SPEAKER_00 25:42

They all vary, to be honest. That one fourplex we're doing that one's around almost 5,000 square foot. And then some of the other ones that we're doing are maybe around 750, 800 square foot. They're all different. The price per square foot obviously changes a lot too, depending where you're located at. But for the most part, I want to say it's around that hundred dollars a square foot, is typically how we base those numbers on.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

That's what it costs to remodel it.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

Yeah, typically, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

Nice, nice. Heck yeah. Yeah, that's that's good. I've been really trying to drill down. I feel like in our area, if I'm not touching anything, and this this where I go different from where you are, I'm finding a lot of houses and I'm keeping the sheetrock, the insulation. I'm pretty much just lipstick in the thing. Paint, flooring, probably remodel two bathrooms. If we can leave the kitchen cabinets, throw granite in there, but we're usually around $40 a square foot versus just completely gutting it. But but it's hard to really get a number if you're doing a bunch of different things. But it is nice to have it when you're analyzing properties, you kind of you know where you need to be.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

But yeah, for the most part, I've done so many flips and so many projects through the being in that construction industry that I kind of just know when I walk in that property approximately what it's gonna take. And then now we use QuickBooks for all our systems, we use projects on there. So let's say if we have a four-bedroom, two bath around whatever square footage, I can pull it up on our system and look back on an address that was around that same size and I can see exactly how much money we spent on it. So I'm always I have that that information now built over the last couple of years. So that helps out a lot as well. So I'm always kind of looking at that. I'm like, okay, this will work for a flip because I know about ballpark hit or miss will be around that price. But yeah, when it comes to flips, yeah, we have a lot of them where we're not doing full guts either. We try to salvage on the rentals on what we can. Obviously, we're trying to eliminate that long-term maintenance. So we want to take care of everything that's huge up front. But if we can leave the drywall and we can run to electrical without just trenching it, we're gonna do that. But it's just everyone's kind of different here and there.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

If you can afford it and make it work, I think it's better because you don't know how many times we go through and we're trying to keep the texture and drywall. And then once we prime everything and you just see all the nail holes and the patch up, and then we're going back, and then we got to match it. If you can go from a blank canvas, you have systems and people, you're like, you got electrical, you got your rough and all that stuff, then you go drywall, then texture, then paint, and everything runs smoothly, and you're not having to go back. Or, for example, I bought this nasty house. So lady been peeing on the floors for beautiful wood floors for for I don't even know how long. They were all warped up, and and then I was like, okay, we're gonna definitely have to pull these floors, but then we're gonna keep all the casings and the texture, but then the casings had soaked up all that stuff. So now when I was playing that, I'm like, all right, let's rip those off. And so sometimes it would have been better just pull everything and then paint and then not have to go back or here or there. So yeah, long story short, if you can work from a blank canvas, sometimes that's the way to do it.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

It's the best, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Yeah, so speaking for anybody out there who maybe wants to go into doing real estate investing or contracting, remodeling, what what do you have to say to them? And maybe not necessarily just like the cookie cutter, oh, you can do it. What's the real stuff? Are some people not cut out for this? Do you have to just speak to that, whatever comes to your heart on that?

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Yeah, so it definitely takes a lot of dedication, and uh you got to be able to make sacrifices. I know, like I said, when I first started, I worked all the time. I worked eight to five on my main business, and then from five to about 11 every night on investing on my flip, my first flip myself, and then weekends were all gone just working. I worked all the time before I had kids. Obviously, I was able to do that. And then just those sacrifices that at that time is what helped propel us to where we are today. I feel like you just got to make sacrifices. And same thing if you start up a business, you're gonna have it's not just gonna be from eight to five. You're gonna be doing that work from eight to five, and then after that, you're doing billing, you're doing estimates, you're reaching out to uh customers, you're constantly trying to get new business. And it's tough to juggle all that when you first start, but you just got to be resilient and just keep going and not give up because obviously, what if you give up, there's nothing left. That's it. I would say just being persistent and just keep going, consistency.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Yep, I love that, man. I love that. So many people, I don't know if you've ever heard that, but it's must be nice type deal. They see the end result, but they didn't see all the hours of putting in work, of the stress, of the freaking waking up in the middle of the night, like, man, I wonder if this is gonna work. Did I make a bad call? Am I gonna get our family into a bad position? There's a lot of risk in investing. There is you gotta be willing. Like me now, I'll roll the dice on stuff. But and some people aren't cut out for it. Some people I knew I somebody told me a story of this guy, and he went into wholesaling, and within two years, he was making half a million dollars. He had come from a a year, he had come from a job where he was making $250,000, so he doubled his income. Within an about another year on his third year, he ended up going back to his W-2 job because even though he was making more, he didn't know what his next check was gonna be. And so he liked that security versus the more money, and sometimes it's not worth it. Money is not everything, but I freaking love it. It drives me not money, but just the next deal. Yeah, like I was speaking. I never feel good enough. I always feel like somebody's doing better than me. I always feel like where I'm just like it feels good when I close one, that check comes in, and then the next thing I've already forgotten about it.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

And then it's like you're on to the next, yep. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

So trying to keep that in check and maintain gratitude, yeah. But then also keep myself driven and looking for the next ones. That's like a fine line of insanity and and uh and harm work to be living.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

Oh, yeah, I know the feeling.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

That's awesome, man. I'm really glad to connect with you, and it seems like we had a lot of similar interests, so that's cool. I love sitting down and doing podcasts with people because we would have never really known too much more about each other than we invest in real estate on Facebook. But sitting down face to face, I've made a lot of friends typically, and you never know when hey, maybe you'll be going doing big units, and then I'm doing big units too, and then hey, I got one in your area, maybe we could partner on it, or maybe exactly do the remodel and just building a network all over the country, uh, other investors. It's just I just love it. I think it's a cool thing.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

I do too, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

Is our do you have Fahad you in your social media?

SPEAKER_00 33:04

Yep. So yeah, we just started. I want to say it was this past month, and I'm glad I just kind of jumped into that because for the longest time I was like trying to do it yourself, but having that you can't scale, you know that better. You got to put those people in place that help you get there. What you're not good at, you need to have someone else that's good at that. That's they need to take care of that. So, yeah, he's been great to work with, and uh yeah, I definitely uh you all work together as well, right? Yep, yep, okay, yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

He's been great for me, dude. He's he since I started doing my posting, I think I've at least doubled my income. At least doubled. So yeah, have people bringing me deals. The deal I got was literally from my posting. Oh, nice, it just continues to go. You just gotta make sure to get him the content so he can pump it out. That's exactly.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

Yes, that's what I've been noticing. Is yeah, I'm trying to do it here and there when I can, but I think I'm gonna have to incorporate that in my schedule one day out of the week, just go out and just make content. Yep, and uh yeah, so that's been the one thing I've been trying to juggle with right now. But how long have you been working together?

SPEAKER_01 34:08

I think he's been doing my stuff for almost a year now.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

Oh, nice, dang.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Okay, he does all my podcasts and my content, and then he'll post it in groups, and a lot of the stuff where he does the inspirational quote stuff. I just tops told him to stop doing it because it was like not what I would ever say, and it would just like I just felt just like almost. Yeah, yeah. But then on the other stuff, it's been so beneficial, and that was one thing I had to get over too. So many people will hate when you're posting tons of content, and like, oh my god, another video. But it's like I just had to get stop caring what other people thought, you know what I'm saying? It's like you're gonna hate on me for wanting to make more money and better my position and my family, yeah. All right, whatever, dude.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

So yeah, whatever, yeah, whatever helps you sleep at night, go for it.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

If you got time to worry about me, then you obviously aren't busy enough. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

What's your population in the town you live in?

SPEAKER_01 35:04

So it's about over, it's around 200,000.

SPEAKER_00 35:07

Nice, okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

So I'm at the very top of Texas, like the square.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

In the panhandle. So real flat, a lot of farmland. Lubbock is about an hour and a half away. So that's with Texas Tech University. And then we've got the really big thing around here is the data centers are coming in like crazy.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

Gotcha, okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

So it's just pumping the real estate and it's pumping the rental prices up. And I feel like it's a good place to invest. Yeah. Just because there's so many people moving here. Yeah. For jobs.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

You were born and raised there?

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

Okay, nice, nice. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

And then I went off all around Texas really for school. Yeah. And yeah, yeah, from here. Born here, came back here, you know how it is. Yep. Oh, yeah. Small towns will suck you in. Yes, they will. Yeah, yeah. Cool, man. Anything else you want to add or go over?

SPEAKER_00 36:01

Yeah, not that I can think of. Like I said, anytime you think of something, I don't mind hopping on again. We we do this more if there's other categories we want to kind of dial into, and I'd like to learn more about you as well. Like you said, just networking, and that's how we're all gonna scale. And my wife actually did a lot of business with the online marketing with some people in Texas as well. We've traveled there before the kids and did a lot of conferences, and yeah, we really like the area down there. So maybe we'll travel down there, hang out, do something, check out the rest. Yeah, absolutely. Maybe you all come down here and check it out too. Cause yeah, we're really trying to focus a little bit outskirts, but uh not having the control on those sites all the time. You know, that's difficult for me, but to scale, you have to be able to be able to just get uncomfortable outside of those areas. So I wouldn't mind checking out that market down there.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

Yep, 100%, dude. I'm telling you, that's my goal too, is to eventually go at least all over Texas, if not nationwide. You know what I'm saying? Flipping maybe nationwide. I don't know if I necessarily want to own rentals in other areas unless they're higher end, like better rent, better tenants that I because trying to manage a DC property is about impossible.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Yeah, it's gotta be an Air B.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

Yeah, 100%. Exactly. Yeah, so but definitely, yeah, 100%, man. We've got Palladra Canyon that's right next to us. It's the second largest canyon in the world. Nice, so it's sweet, a lot of good hiking and biking and trails and a lot to do around here. So if you guys want to come visit, man, stay in our guest house or and shoot, maybe I'll come up there and yeah, let's let's just continue to build the friendship.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

I like it.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

Yeah, heck yeah, man. Oh, I was gonna ask you. So is your wife involved in the process as well?

SPEAKER_00 37:49

So yeah, my wife, when we first started, she was actually the one who handled all the leases and the property management. We never told the tenant she was my wife. I don't know if they most of them could probably pop on social media and figure out, hey, Courtney, and then Courtney here. Yeah, but it was funny because one deal we ran into, it was a lease for one of our short short-term rentals. She signed the lease at $900 and it should have been $1,900. The tenant signed the $900, obviously, and didn't say nothing. Then I caught it and I was like, like, this is way off. And I asked the tenant, and she's like, You all sent the lease, you all signed it. And I'm like, Oh my goodness, come on, you've been living, she's been living there for I think almost a year, and it was a three-month lease that she just keeps renewing. So she obviously knew that it was 1900 before, and then like we wouldn't drop it down, but yeah. So after that, I give Courtney a hard time all the time. But did you have to honor the lease? No, so I told the tenant, I was like, Hey, if you can't work with me on this, then I'm just gonna sell the property. And uh, we ended up taking a discount, a huge discount on it, but we renew negotiated to a little bit higher. But yeah, it took, I think, another six months to get her back open to that 1900. But yeah, after that, we ended up starting a property management company. I have my realtor's license. I went ahead and got my broker's license and we started that up. So yeah, we have a really great team in place now. But for the most part, my wife just stays at home and helps with the kids. She does do a lot of the social media with me as well. Like, we'll go out and get content together, and she still does that on the side for other network marketing companies. Like, she may advertise a little bit for them, but uh, for the most part, raising three kids is the main priority at home. That's a full-time job in itself.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

Yeah, for sure. No, it definitely is. My wife, see, so you're a broker too.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 39:33

Dang, bro, you're a hustler, man. That's not my wife. She had I'm pretty much made her get her realtor's license. Okay, she's been a realtor now for about two years, so she but she pretty much only lists our deals. Yeah, she doesn't want to do any kind of buyer's agent stuff. She pretty much just wants to be a seller's agent and not mess with any open houses or showings or yeah, pretty much just a little extra income. Pretty much her spending money on the side.

SPEAKER_00 39:58

So and then plus it just saves for you guys when you're buying deals or you're selling deals, you get to keep that three percent. Three percent. And then plus, obviously for taxes, I'm sure that was one of the main reasons. Yeah, 100%, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

100%, bro. Yep, smart, smart. Cool, man. I think that's it. And uh thanks, guys. Thanks for stopping by for another episode of Let's Buy the World, a business real estate hustler podcast. Go and follow the YouTube, go and follow my Instagram, and I'll also follow and like here. Do you want to shout out your socials or anything?

SPEAKER_00 40:31

Uh yeah, we can probably just I'll send them and tag them on there because yeah, I don't know all the yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

That's fine. Love it. Sounds good, man. Thank you so much for hopping on.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

Okay, appreciate it, man. We'll holler at you later. Peace. Bye.

SPEAKER_01 40:43

Thanks for stopping in and listening to this episode of Let's Buy the World, a real estate podcast. We're gonna be trying to bring you guys lots of new content, have really good guests. So stay tuned. Thanks.